Gas Prices, Democrats and Tree-Huggers

[Vance Lloyd]

I have noticed in the last few weeks more and more Democrats talking up a huge gas tax to cut our nations consumption of gasoline. I was just watching FOX Business and a couple of the liberal (D) talking heads are promoting a tax that would take gas prices to $5.00 to force the public to cut down on consumption. When the conservative head brought up the idea of more fuel efficient cars cutting down on consumption the liberal from GreenPeace dismissed that idea by saying we would just drive more if our cars were more efficient. A few weeks ago I watched John Edwards say nearly the same thing on HBO's Bill Maher Show. No explanation is given as to how they expect our country to function during this time of low consumption and huge fuel taxes. Edwards did specifically say that ethanol is not the answer. Of course we all know the tree huggers are not in favor of Biofuel plants being built. It seems they are trying to scare the public into buy into this huge tax but they have no plan as to how this economy will function if gas is five bucks and no other fuels are being produced to take its place. At $3 bucks a gallon we read stories locally of police departments cutting out patrols because local government can’t afford to put gas in the tanks. One of the talking heads said we could build more high speed trains, I wonder how that would help South West Indiana if they built more high speed trains to help out with high gas prices and how would they build them with gas prices going to $5.00 before they are even started on construction. Maybe if a democrat is elected President I will start a company with horse and buggy to get people to work and back.

[Pynk Fairy Wyngs]

I seen that same report this morning on Fox News. I couldn't believe that one chic WANTS gas around $5.00 a gallon. Guess if you make her kind of money, it's no big deal. I've got a 26 gallon Ford, and this weekend I'm picking up a 79 Malibu. I hope it doesn't go up to $5.00

Does anyone think the Gov't would suspend the Federal tax on a gallon, or maybe even just the State? I think combined it's .39 cents?

[Tumbleweed]

The federal gasoline tax is $0.184/gal. Everybody pays it.

In Indiana, we pay another $0.18/gal in state taxes. Here's the part that really ticks me off. We also pay 6% state sales tax so the higher the wholesale gasoline price goes the more we pay per gallon in sales tax.

If the wholesale price is $1.50 we pay $0.09/gal in sales tax but when the wholesale price goes to $3.00 our sales tax doubles to $0.18/gal.

Remember the sales tax is in addition to the flat 18 cent state and 18.4 cent federal taxes so at $1.50 wholesale we pay 45 cents tax but when wholesale goes to $3.00 we pay 54 cents total tax.

What it boils down to is that high gas prices are an absolute windfall to the state treasury because sales taxes are calculated as a percentage and not a straight charge per gallon.

I hope someone in the oil buisness will correct my figures if I made any errors.

http://www.gaspricewatch.com/usgastaxes.asp

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/1054.html

[Vance Lloyd]

I would love to see a plan from one of these morons as to how we are to function with $5.00 gas. The Liberal wing of the Democrat Party is starting to hate oil more than they already hate God Loving Christians.

[Pynk Fairy Wyngs]

Thanks for the correction Tumble on the price of the taxes, blew me away how Indiana is making a killing off of us...

[UncleBob]

Personally, I'd like to see the price of gas go up just so it would *force* us to find other ways - that don't depend on foreign imports - to get around. But I know that's not a popular opinion. :)

[Nosparxsse]

Let's not forget about the taxes they want to put on the entire U.S. for driving vehichles that don't get what they call "Sufficient" gas mileage. Not just on gas, but on insurance companies and on License prices for driving bigger vehichles. The global warming frenzy is out of control.

on a positive note though.....I Was watchin a special on ch 9 about how general motors thinks they are ahead of the curve on some of this stuff, but the costs they were talkin about were outrageous!!! I still think that we have an advantage for our local economy having toyota here, because they are obviously ahead on some of this (fuel efficiency)stuff. (not that I am saying general motors is dead yet, but they've got along way to go.....)


Uncle Bob is right to an extent though, it will take higher prices to kick us into gear, as bad as I hate to say it. Maybee some of the gov officials will get their heads outta their butts and start drilling for oil in the U.S. Why are we not already???????????????

BECAUSE OF THE STUPID ENVIRONMENTALIST WHACKOS!!!! Who stand to make the most money off of taxing us for the HOAX of global warming.

[Pynk Fairy Wyngs]

Average temperatures have climbed 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit (0.8 degree Celsius) around the world since 1880, much of this in recent decades, according to NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

The rate of warming is increasing. The 20th century's last two decades were the hottest in 400 years and possibly the warmest for several millennia, according to a number of climate studies. And the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports that 11 of the past 12 years are among the dozen warmest since 1850.

The Arctic is feeling the effects the most. Average temperatures in Alaska, western Canada, and eastern Russia have risen at twice the global average, according to the multinational Arctic Climate Impact Assessment report compiled between 2000 and 2004.

Arctic ice is rapidly disappearing, and the region may have its first completely ice-free summer by 2040 or earlier. Polar bears and indigenous cultures are already suffering from the sea-ice loss.

Glaciers and mountain snows are rapidly melting—for example, Montana's Glacier National Park now has only 27 glaciers, versus 150 in 1910. In the Northern Hemisphere, thaws also come a week earlier in spring and freezes begin a week later.

Coral reefs, which are highly sensitive to small changes in water temperature, suffered the worst bleaching—or die-off in response to stress—ever recorded in 1998, with some areas seeing bleach rates of 70 percent. Experts expect these sorts of events to increase in frequency and intensity in the next 50 years as sea temperatures rise.

An upsurge in the amount of extreme weather events, such as wildfires, heat waves, and strong tropical storms, is also attributed in part to climate change by some experts.

[Nosparxsse]

Oh boy....... Yeah the internet is full of wonderful information about all of this crap..... for the naive to fall for. For every story, there is a story to counter it....I think Arn did a link dump on here about that a few weeks ago...

1.4 degrees in 100 years...........:eek:

These studies are all done by computer models.
If you input the wrong data you will get the wrong answer.....if a scientist opens their mouth against the MOB of global warming finaticals they are banished into non-existence.

The Arctic has melting, yet you never hear of the ice growing rapidly in the Antarctic......

Do the fanatics honeslty believe that the Earth can not heal itself???? Do they realy think that God's creation is not perfect??? They hold themselves on a pretty high pedestal!!!

Just like the fires out west.................
I mean come on, we can't cut down trees. We have to let the forests get thick, then when it catches fire, AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH global warming.
The fires are part of natures way of cleaning up. In my mind the Environmentalists have caused a lot of the fire problems. If we were allowed to log some of these areas(you know, clean them out)there wouldn't be so much underbrush to burn!!!! Maybee they would be able to control them!!!
I also heard a story the other day that the hole in the Ozone is Almost non-existant?????? How can this be since we are burning more fossil fuels than ever????? It was just supposed to get worse wasn't it???? Perhaps there never was a hole.
Who knows.......it's all a bunch of hype to figure out more ways to collect money for the government. You know they just don't have enough money.........

[Pynk Fairy Wyngs]

C'mon Nosparxxse, I'm trying to stir the pot and get the tree huggers on there kick.

[bodine]

Personally, I'd like to see the price of gas go up just so it would *force* us to find other ways - that don't depend on foreign imports - to get around. But I know that's not a popular opinion. :)

Necessity is the "mother of invention".

[Tumbleweed]

Personally, I'd like to see the price of gas go up .....

The way I see it there are two ways to make gas prices move. Let market forces establish the correct price or have a bunch of economicly challeged politicians hang a huge tax increase on it.

The problem with using obscene tax increases to encourage fuel effiecency and alternative fuel developement is that the taxes are an unreliable, artificial influence. Politicians change their minds every time the wind blows and businesses are unwise to invest hundreds of millions in alternative fuels when they are competing with artificially high (mega-tax) gasoline. What happens when the tax goes away and businesses are left with a high priced alternative that can't compete.

If government would get out of the way and allow the best and brightest to research, invent, develope and compete for our energy needs the cheapest and most efficeint means will win in the marketplace. Business and industry are investing and working on products that we may not see for 5, 10 or more years in the future. They can't spend the money on new developements if politicians are constantly setting them up and pulling the rug out from under them.

[Nosparxsse]

If government would get out of the way and allow the best and brightest to research, invent, develope and compete for our energy needs the cheapest and most efficeint means will win in the marketplace.
Business and industry are investing and working on products that we may not see for 5, 10 or more years in the future. They can't spend the money on new developements if politicians are constantly setting them up and pulling the rug out from under them.


AMEN!!!!!!

[Vance Lloyd]

I wonder if Global Warming melted the Glaciers that once covered Chicago and much of Indiana with several feet of ice many many years ago?

Back to the gas issue. Prices are high enough now to spur an increase in research of alternate fuels, we dont need a $2.00 per gallon tax to hurry anything. I wonder if all that tax money would be used on research or would it be used for more Democrat Pork Spending.

[Nosparxsse]

Vance Lloyd:Democrat Pork Spending.

If I was a betting person, I would go for this one!!!:p

[Vance Lloyd]

I would think a plan already in place to replace our dependency on oil would be even a better idea before we TAX it out of existence. If gas goes to five bucks because of oil we will just have to live with it but if it goes to five because of a government tax then I think we need to hang some (D) on the National Mall.

[IronHorseman]

Average temperatures have climbed 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit (0.8 degree Celsius) around the world since 1880, much of this in recent decades, according to NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

The rate of warming is increasing. The 20th century's last two decades were the hottest in 400 years and possibly the warmest for several millennia, according to a number of climate studies. And the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports that 11 of the past 12 years are among the dozen warmest since 1850.

The Arctic is feeling the effects the most. Average temperatures in Alaska, western Canada, and eastern Russia have risen at twice the global average, according to the multinational Arctic Climate Impact Assessment report compiled between 2000 and 2004.

Arctic ice is rapidly disappearing, and the region may have its first completely ice-free summer by 2040 or earlier. Polar bears and indigenous cultures are already suffering from the sea-ice loss.

Glaciers and mountain snows are rapidly melting—for example, Montana's Glacier National Park now has only 27 glaciers, versus 150 in 1910. In the Northern Hemisphere, thaws also come a week earlier in spring and freezes begin a week later.

Coral reefs, which are highly sensitive to small changes in water temperature, suffered the worst bleaching—or die-off in response to stress—ever recorded in 1998, with some areas seeing bleach rates of 70 percent. Experts expect these sorts of events to increase in frequency and intensity in the next 50 years as sea temperatures rise.

An upsurge in the amount of extreme weather events, such as wildfires, heat waves, and strong tropical storms, is also attributed in part to climate change by some experts.


The Sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Oh wait God is still in control of his creation.

[Nosparxsse]

Ironhorseman: Oh wait God is still in control of his creation.


Well IH I guess we agree on this one....;)



Do the fanatics honeslty believe that the Earth can not heal itself???? Do they realy think that God's creation is not perfect??? They hold themselves on a pretty high pedestal!!!
.....



Quote from the Weather channel's John Coleman:"The impact of humans on climate is not catastrophic. Our planet is not in peril. I am incensed by the incredible media glamour, the politically correct silliness and rude dismissal of counter arguments by the high priest of Global Warming."

[Taceas]

Quote from the Weather channel's John Coleman
Never trust a "weather" entity who prides itself on showing STORM STORIES! while tornadoes are rolling around the area, rather than radar and storm information when the local station is down. If I wanted to watch extreme weather stories, I'd watch the Discovery Channel or just step out the back door. I'll trust what I can see and observe.

Otherwise, I agree with UncleBob. It's going to take high gas prices to break our dependence and influence change, as it certainly hasn't happened any other way thus far. I think we have the technology, but we need a kick in the pants to get the ball rolling.

I also have no problems with people paying a higher tax on vehicles that aren't as efficient. Most people I see around here driving large vehicles don't need them, they have them just to have them or to make an unnecessary statement. "Look at my Land Rover, isn't it grand?" or "My Chevy Silverado 4x4 that's jacked up till you need a ladder to get into it is better than your Ford Ranger." Did anyone else notice the monster truck parked on Broadway on Friday night? I didn't realize we had a need for that around these parts. ;)

If you insist on having a luxury fuel guzzler, you can afford to fill it up, then you can afford a tax that benefits the local area in which you waste fuel in. And maybe just maybe they'll realize this isn't the 60's and 70's with huge cars and cheap gas and figure it out for themselves. Gas is at a premium now because demand exceeds supply, and it's only going to get worse I feel.

One woman does not need a full size Hummer to go to Buehlers to buy 3 bags of groceries, she could do it with a insert small fuel efficient car here. But yet I saw it a few weeks ago in town and it disgusted me.

We bought a truck because we needed 4-wheel drive to get in and out of our road and to carry heavy feed loads. We found out after the first year its not car friendly at all and carrying 500lbs of livestock feed and bedding in a car isn't all that practical. We knew we were giving up fuel economy for necessity, and swallowed the burden. We tried to buy the most fuel efficient truck we could get, but even still I spent $50.00 filling it up last week. It hurts, of course, but I accept it. Some times I feel guilty that I have no problem paying for gas, while some people on a low or fixed income have to make choices.

If you have a large un-efficient vehicle for work or other required purpose, then you should get exemptions on it. But otherwise, tax 'em.

I just want to know, since I'm not really hip on what truly affects gas prices....but why does commotion in Turkey influence prices this week so radically, when I've always understood gas to be about "futures"? Or...uhoh, tropical storm in the Gulf, lets jack prices 30 cents just in case! I just don't get it. Prices seem to fluctuate entirely too much to be honest market fluctuations of supply and demand. I filled up week before last at the Co-op for $3.03 (iirc) for premium, and this week I see prices in town are almost $3.20. What happened last week I don't know about? :p

government would get out of the way
That would be nice wouldn't it? But I don't see it happening with a government that caters to oil conglomerates who make billions in profit while they're "just passing the cost on to the consumer". :rolleyes:

Democrat Pork Spending
Oh good grief, you're beginning to sound as broken-record and as fanatical as IronHorseman. It takes two to tango, all politicians are to blame for that crap and we need to elect people who are held accountable for their actions and actually hold them accountable. Not to mention the last time I checked we've had a Republican in office for the past 7 years, and from what I've read around in various places he's spent the most of any President in history.

[krazy68]

but if it goes to five because of a government tax then I think we need to hang some (D) on the National Mall.

Pretty strong words for a law enforcement officer. Lynchings went out of style quite a few years ago.

[Jigsaw]

I wonder if Global Warming melted the Glaciers that once covered Chicago and much of Indiana with several feet of ice many many years ago?

Try several hundred feet. And yes, global warming did. Those Great Lakes aren't from rain. The glacier in question went just past the Gibson- Vanderburgh county line.

[IronHorseman]

If you insist on having a luxury fuel guzzler, you can afford to fill it up, then you can afford a tax that benefits the local area in which you waste fuel in.





Hmmmmm. Forced redistribution of wealth for the greater good of society. Now where have I heard that one before

If I want to drive an old Cuda with an elephant motor, 6-71 blower and a pair of 750`s it`s really nobodys business. After all I am paying for the fuel I burn.

[Vance Lloyd]

Never trust a "weather" entity who prides itself on showing STORM STORIES! while tornadoes are rolling around the area, rather than radar and storm information when the local station is down. If I wanted to watch extreme weather stories, I'd watch the Discovery Channel or just step out the back door. I'll trust what I can see and observe.

Otherwise, I agree with UncleBob. It's going to take high gas prices to break our dependence and influence change, as it certainly hasn't happened any other way thus far. I think we have the technology, but we need a kick in the pants to get the ball rolling.

I also have no problems with people paying a higher tax on vehicles that aren't as efficient. Most people I see around here driving large vehicles don't need them, they have them just to have them or to make an unnecessary statement. "Look at my Land Rover, isn't it grand?" or "My Chevy Silverado 4x4 that's jacked up till you need a ladder to get into it is better than your Ford Ranger." Did anyone else notice the monster truck parked on Broadway on Friday night? I didn't realize we had a need for that around these parts. ;)

If you insist on having a luxury fuel guzzler, you can afford to fill it up, then you can afford a tax that benefits the local area in which you waste fuel in. And maybe just maybe they'll realize this isn't the 60's and 70's with huge cars and cheap gas and figure it out for themselves. Gas is at a premium now because demand exceeds supply, and it's only going to get worse I feel.

One woman does not need a full size Hummer to go to Buehlers to buy 3 bags of groceries, she could do it with a insert small fuel efficient car here. But yet I saw it a few weeks ago in town and it disgusted me.

We bought a truck because we needed 4-wheel drive to get in and out of our road and to carry heavy feed loads. We found out after the first year its not car friendly at all and carrying 500lbs of livestock feed and bedding in a car isn't all that practical. We knew we were giving up fuel economy for necessity, and swallowed the burden. We tried to buy the most fuel efficient truck we could get, but even still I spent $50.00 filling it up last week. It hurts, of course, but I accept it. Some times I feel guilty that I have no problem paying for gas, while some people on a low or fixed income have to make choices.

If you have a large un-efficient vehicle for work or other required purpose, then you should get exemptions on it. But otherwise, tax 'em.

I just want to know, since I'm not really hip on what truly affects gas prices....but why does commotion in Turkey influence prices this week so radically, when I've always understood gas to be about "futures"? Or...uhoh, tropical storm in the Gulf, lets jack prices 30 cents just in case! I just don't get it. Prices seem to fluctuate entirely too much to be honest market fluctuations of supply and demand. I filled up week before last at the Co-op for $3.03 (iirc) for premium, and this week I see prices in town are almost $3.20. What happened last week I don't know about? :p


That would be nice wouldn't it? But I don't see it happening with a government that caters to oil conglomerates who make billions in profit while they're "just passing the cost on to the consumer". :rolleyes:


Oh good grief, you're beginning to sound as broken-record and as fanatical as IronHorseman. It takes two to tango, all politicians are to blame for that crap and we need to elect people who are held accountable for their actions and actually hold them accountable. Not to mention the last time I checked we've had a Republican in office for the past 7 years, and from what I've read around in various places he's spent the most of any President in history.


I guess now GW is to blame for Democrats calling for a huge tax on fuel. Im pretty sure GW cut taxs as soon as he took over seven years ago and im sure his veto just last week of a huge (D) pork barrell spending bill was overriden by the same Democrats calling for this high tax on gas. I have not seen any (R) as of yet asking for a large tax on fuel. I did however see Bill Clinton explain how Hillary could pay for her health care for america plan, she would resend the Bush tax cuts and it would leave a big pile of money according to Bill.

[Vance Lloyd]

Pretty strong words for a law enforcement officer. Lynchings went out of style quite a few years ago.

I have always been a strong supporter of bringing back public hangings especially for treasonous acts against the U.S..

[evictd]

Public Hangings? Its the 21st Century...some of us are civilized and NOT black/white thinkers..and where is treason even a topic on this thread maybe I missed it??? Lets talk about that concept of redistribution and the other issues of the thread...

Where have you heard it before?
One place you have heard it is in regard to the US Social Security System...we take from the earners and give to the elderly...that is what Social Security was designed to do -- provide for the elderly who presumably could not provide for themselves...Socialistic programs are a part of our government on all 3 levels (Fed-State-Local) what most liberals and conservatives diagree on is where the government spending should go

Con=military & law/order, etc....Lib=more social ie:educ, etc...

Shouldn't we all be tree huggers??? I Like trees they help me breathe

One way we could save on both gas usage and government spending is to make law officers drive their own vehicles to "work" and then use work vehicles from their for the job time....also encourage more recycling through pay as you produce trash programs and decrease the number of trash pick-ups accross the country...

Whats wrong with a luxury tax on expensive cars (hummers, etc)...we could also tax yachts, mansions, pools, tennis courts, etc....Use those taxes to help disadvantage children and schools and hospitals and social services and public goods (roads, bridges, libraries, fire, cops etc...)

Many communities such as our have a train system to get to metropolitan areas...they just put them in at later times after outlying communities merged into one consistant suburbia...ex. the South Shore that goes through all the smaller towns outside of Chicago...it saves northern IN and the Chicago area on emmisions, traffic congesttion, pollution, work absenteeism, etc....and its a government run money maker...I think a train that runs from Vincennes to Eville might work in years to come but would be much easier and cheaper to formulate now..I guess its hard for some to realize that the world will exist more than 5 years from now...

The US is already the largest oil producing nation in the world...thats right we produce more (a lot more) than any other nation...

Global Warming seems to be a factual occurance, however climate changes are extremely difficult to predict with precision...hence I am not prepared to say "the sky is falling" but info about the possibilities that is ACCURATE never hurt anyone...so why not try to listen to the most knowledgable people and then decide policy...and it seems that the most knowledgable people (scientists who do the research w/o an agenda) believe global warming to be occurring and its effects could be catostrophic...

[Nosparxsse]

[QUOTE=Taceas]paying a higher tax on vehicles that aren't as efficient. Most people I see around here driving large vehicles don't need them, they have them just to have them or to make an unnecessary statement.

Or perhaps they want a safe ride for their families??? So as to avoid the 3,000 other idiots out there driving drunk, stupid, or illegally???? So if they get hit they might have a chance of surviving????

and not to mention if you have ever shopped for older vehichles, the bigger ones are usually easier to buy with cash, because they are cheaper.......yeah, they use more gas but people who want to buy a vehichle with (NO PAYMENTS) OH!!!!! really don't care, because if you don't have to make payments you should be able to afford the gas......

We bought a truck because we needed 4-wheel drive to get in and out of our road and to carry heavy feed loads.
How do you know what other people need for their lives??? This is a mostly rural area???? Most people around here have large rides.....The SUV has been the best invention for people who have families and live in rural areas....I agree on the jacked up 4 wheel drive though........that is usually a phase, hell I used to have one......






we need to elect people who are held accountable for their actions and actually hold them accountable.
YES AMEN TO THIS!!!


Not to mention the last time I checked we've had a Republican in office for the past 7 years,
Who INHERITED A RECESSION FROM THE (D) in the previous 8 years!!!!!!! this always seems to get left out....

[Nosparxsse]

[QUOTE=evictd]Lets talk about that concept of redistribution and the other issues of the thread...

Where have you heard it before?
One place you have heard it is in regard to the US Social Security System...we take from the earners and give to the elderly...that is what Social Security was designed to do --

AND WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE PERMANENT!!!


Shouldn't we all be tree huggers??? I Like trees they help me breathe

Yes but when you breathe out you are contributing to global warming with your carbon emissions!!!!!!:p

One way we could save on both gas usage and government spending is to make law officers drive their own vehicles to "work" and then use work vehicles from their for the job time..

It takes more fuel to start a vehicle than when it is running. How will this fix it??? Starting 2 vehichles instead of 1. Not to mention, most people feel safer when the cops can get right into their vehicle that is fully equipped in case of an emergency. A lot of departments use this as part of the cops benefits. Think about this too. if a person had to go buy a vehichle to just get to work do you think they are gonna buy the newest most efficient car???? No way! They will buy a clunker just to get to the good ride at work. Clunker, spilling oil, smoke, and burning twice as much gas as their usually (up to date) cop vehichles are. Just using a little common sense here...........





The US is already the largest oil producing nation in the world...thats right we produce more (a lot more) than any other nation... we also use more, so, shouldn't we keep drilling ???? We can't keep relying on foreign countries! We need to be self sufficient!!!!! Drill in Alaska....... Drill off the coast of Florida........But we must still keep the transition going for future generations to find better sources of energies, but not by using fake SCARE tactics created by media sources ie. GLOBAL WARMING........... In the 1930's they had a Warming scare, In the seventies it was Cooling, now we are back to warming..........:rolleyes:

however climate changes are extremely difficult to predict with precision...

why not try to listen to the most knowledgable people and then decide policy...

most knowledgable people (scientists who do the research without an agenda)

I agree with these excerpts......

[krazy68]

The only traitor on here are those who would disregard the constitution and take the law into their own hands.

[Nosparxsse]

I don't think Vance means lynch mobs as you are thinking. I think he means if executions were carried out like they used to be in a public square, there would be less acts of crime. Instead of people lawyerin' up and getting away with EVERYTHING......

Really it was just a joke i think, i mean come on whos gonna fight the secret service to get to a senator to hang??????

(side note on that...)
Heard on news tonight they have found a loophole for 20,000 people across the U.S.... in jail for convicted crack /cocaine users to get a get out of jail 4 free card.....yeah that is the law at work for the citizens.....

[krazy68]

I have always been a strong supporter of bringing back public hangings especially for treasonous acts against the U.S.. and this.... If gas goes to five bucks because of oil we will just have to live with it but if it goes to five because of a government tax then I think we need to hang some (D) on the National Mall.

So if a duly elected official does something you disagree with, hang them.
I see my mistake now. It is kind of funny. Hate IS Funny

[Nosparxsse]

If gas goes to five bucks because of oil we will just have to live with it.


but if it goes to five because of a government tax then I think we need to hang some (D) on the National Mall.

Vance, ....... guess you shoulv'e worded it this way for the sensitive. : "but if it goes to 5 American credits I think we need to take a few blue people who are in charge of the national decisions and make them count to 1000 while they stand in the time out box...... " and then when the next people choosing time comes we will have to make them aware we don't approve of their behavior and not let them get as many choosing credits to get back in their play areas.....

[Tumbleweed]

I think you mean well and have good intentions but many of the ideas that you propose have some very serious consequences if you really think about them. I'll give you a few examples

It's going to take high gas prices to break our dependence and influence change, ...... I think we have the technology, but we need a kick in the pants to get the ball rolling.
I also think there is some wonderful new technology coming but we won't see it until the marketplace can support it. If I told you I could build a luxury car/mini van/pick-up that runs on biobutanol made from leaves in your back yard and you only needed 12 leaves to drive to E-ville and back 6 times, would you buy it? What if I told you the vehicle costs $450,000? Would you buy it? The market will kick us in the pants, not government and not taxes. When some brilliant person invents this vehicle and they can sell it for $30,000 then people will buy it.
(but then that person will become extremely wealthy and the libs will take all his money away from him but that's another topic)

I also have no problems with people paying a higher tax on vehicles that aren't as efficient. Most people I see around here driving large vehicles don't need them, they have them just to have them or to make an unnecessary statement. "Look at my Land Rover, isn't it grand?"
That's not for you or me to decide. If we form a government commitee to choose vehicles for us they may decide my 12 year old car is not safe enough for my family and if I don't buy a Lexus with side air bags I'll be prosecuted as a child abuser and be assesed a big "medical risk tax".
These kind of things have a way of getting way out of control. Just let me choose the vehicle and I'll pay for it and put fuel in it. Thank you.
(...and class envy will drive you crazy. Someone is always going to have a nicer car or a bigger house)

One woman does not need a full size Hummer to go to Buehlers to buy 3 bags of groceries. But yet I saw it a few weeks ago in town and it disgusted me.
No, but you see she has freedom of choice and if she wants to get a CDL and drive a Kenworth to the store, have at it. If she thinks it's to hard to find a parking space or it burns to much fuel then she might choose a different vehicle.

The problem is that we won't allow people to reap the rewards for their poor choices and when this lady and a few thousand of her closest friends retire with no money they will vote to take my savings and some lib will give it to them.

We bought a truck because we needed 4-wheel drive to get in and out of our road and to carry heavy feed loads. We found out after the first year its not car friendly at all and carrying 500lbs of livestock feed and bedding in a car isn't all that practical.
I'm from the county committee that certifies vehicle choices and our database shows that your family sedan has a towing capacity of 1,000 lbs which is more than adequate to haul your feed. We have determined that this is a much more effecient environmentally friendly option. (...insert global warming rant here. Include free tickets to Owlgores movie...) We have chosen the proper trailer for your needs and we will allow you to pick the color and the trailer hitch that you would like. We also recomend you buy a spare tire and pack the wheel bearings once a year. We're from the government and we're here to serve your best intrests. Let us know if we can help you place the order and don't forget to pay the sales tax because we know where you live.
http://www.sportutilitytrailers.com/LongChih/749TC-TS48BX.htm

If you have a large un-efficient vehicle for work or other required purpose, then you should get exemptions on it. But otherwise, tax 'em.

I'm from the county vehicle exemption committee and I've decide to let you trade your utility trailer for a 2 wheel drive Mazda pickup (used) but we have to charge you the "un-efficient vehicle tax" because it not the best option for your needs. (and we have some wonderful plans for your tax money)

Freedom is the best answer. I know when you thought of these suggestions they make perfect sense from your point of view but the problem is when you vote for someone that promises to take other people's freedom away it comes back around and bites you hard.

[evictd]

SS was started in 1935 and has never been ceased by OUR elected politicians...whether the author of the bill or the Congressmen who enacted thought it would be here in 2007 I cant say and neither can anyone else...

Do you want me to NOT breathe??? The human oxygen intake process must be practiced and cannot be practiced without trees and the like...thats science'''sorry

I was kind of joking about the driving to work thing, but you know virtually everyone else drives to work...but if the cops want to take their cars home okay...

check out the comments made at the summet on global warming...leaders called a lack of action taken on this issue "criminal"...it was on the news tonight...

Food for thought and replies to your response to my post...

STOP RIPATTI...GO CNN...GO CUBS...LOVE TREES...AMEN

[Nosparxsse]

stop Rippatti????? Why?? They sell carbon credits!!!!!:p LOL

:D

[UncleBob]

I also think there is some wonderful new technology coming but we won't see it until the marketplace can support it. If I told you I could build a luxury car/mini van/pick-up that runs on biobutanol made from leaves in your back yard and you only needed 12 leaves to drive to E-ville and back 6 times, would you buy it? What if I told you the vehicle costs $450,000? Would you buy it? The market will kick us in the pants, not government and not taxes. When some brilliant person invents this vehicle and they can sell it for $30,000 then people will buy it.
(but then that person will become extremely wealthy and the libs will take all his money away from him but that's another topic)

However - no one is willing to invest the time/money into creating the vehicle and investing enough to get the cost down.

Would the first "Biobutanol Cars" cost $450,000? Possibly. But a year ago High Def Movie players cost $600+. Now, you can get them for $100-$200. As more people adopt a technology, more people will invest in the research needed to drive the cost of that technology down. If gas was $20/gallon, you bet you high heels that a $450,000 vehicle would be purchased by quite a few people(/businesses). And once the first few $450,000 cars are sold, every company will want to get in on this deal... so they'll all be trying to design a car for $400,000 - undercutting their competition, but still making quite the penny. Then $375,000. The lower it gets, the more people will adopt - and the more people who adopt, the more capital the companies behind these vehicles will have to research and develop cheaper and more efficient "Biobutanol Cars".

Then some company in China will design one that cost about $10, but drugs your kids with the rape drug. :)

[Vance Lloyd]

Vance, ....... guess you shoulv'e worded it this way for the sensitive. : "but if it goes to 5 American credits I think we need to take a few blue people who are in charge of the national decisions and make them count to 1000 while they stand in the time out box...... " and then when the next people choosing time comes we will have to make them aware we don't approve of their behavior and not let them get as many choosing credits to get back in their play areas.....

No I tend to say what I mean and if it ruffles some feathers to bad. I think they will get over it, if not I dont care. Maybe I could have said have them stand before a wall on the mall blind folded and with a last cigarette.

[Vance Lloyd]

SS was started in 1935 and has never been ceased by OUR elected politicians...whether the author of the bill or the Congressmen who enacted thought it would be here in 2007 I cant say and neither can anyone else...

Do you want me to NOT breathe??? The human oxygen intake process must be practiced and cannot be practiced without trees and the like...thats science'''sorry

I was kind of joking about the driving to work thing, but you know virtually everyone else drives to work...but if the cops want to take their cars home okay...

check out the comments made at the summet on global warming...leaders called a lack of action taken on this issue "criminal"...it was on the news tonight...

Food for thought and replies to your response to my post...

STOP RIPATTI...GO CNN...GO CUBS...LOVE TREES...AMEN

A Cubs fan that tells the story.

[towering-inferno]

watched an interesting program on National Geographic (i think it was NGEO atleast) that showed a car that ran off of compressed air and had a 120 mile capacity. Pretty neat stuff but its not taking off because the auto industry wont get behind it, not much of a suprise haha

When my parents last looked into buying a new vehicle, they were looking into honda civic, both hybrid and regular (ICE), and the hybrid ended up being way more expensive even with fuel savings figured into the equation. To me right now, having a hybrid is more of a bragging right and luxury (i say luxury due to the price premium) because of the cost of having one. I hope that eventually the price of hybrid will come down even to that of the regular car, but with my finance and cost accounting education i know that the cost of R&D are appropriated to the models of the car being sold, so i'm not going to hold my breath.

I personally would love to have a hybrid, but cost is prohibitive, and i would much rather spend that extra premium on other things. Hopefully for all our sake Unclebob's theory holds true for this instance like it has for others in the past, and we can get cheap hybrid vehicles

[Vance Lloyd]

Public Hangings? Its the 21st Century...some of us are civilized and NOT black/white thinkers..and where is treason even a topic on this thread maybe I missed it??? Lets talk about that concept of redistribution and the other issues of the thread...

Where have you heard it before?
One place you have heard it is in regard to the US Social Security System...we take from the earners and give to the elderly...that is what Social Security was designed to do -- provide for the elderly who presumably could not provide for themselves...Socialistic programs are a part of our government on all 3 levels (Fed-State-Local) what most liberals and conservatives diagree on is where the government spending should go

Con=military & law/order, etc....Lib=more social ie:educ, etc...

Shouldn't we all be tree huggers??? I Like trees they help me breathe

One way we could save on both gas usage and government spending is to make law officers drive their own vehicles to "work" and then use work vehicles from their for the job time....also encourage more recycling through pay as you produce trash programs and decrease the number of trash pick-ups accross the country...

Whats wrong with a luxury tax on expensive cars (hummers, etc)...we could also tax yachts, mansions, pools, tennis courts, etc....Use those taxes to help disadvantage children and schools and hospitals and social services and public goods (roads, bridges, libraries, fire, cops etc...)

Many communities such as our have a train system to get to metropolitan areas...they just put them in at later times after outlying communities merged into one consistant suburbia...ex. the South Shore that goes through all the smaller towns outside of Chicago...it saves northern IN and the Chicago area on emmisions, traffic congesttion, pollution, work absenteeism, etc....and its a government run money maker...I think a train that runs from Vincennes to Eville might work in years to come but would be much easier and cheaper to formulate now..I guess its hard for some to realize that the world will exist more than 5 years from now...

The US is already the largest oil producing nation in the world...thats right we produce more (a lot more) than any other nation...

Global Warming seems to be a factual occurance, however climate changes are extremely difficult to predict with precision...hence I am not prepared to say "the sky is falling" but info about the possibilities that is ACCURATE never hurt anyone...so why not try to listen to the most knowledgable people and then decide policy...and it seems that the most knowledgable people (scientists who do the research w/o an agenda) believe global warming to be occurring and its effects could be catostrophic...

Social Security is one of the most abused programs we have in this country I think it could use a good overhauling.

And what communites such as ours have a train system. Are you on the right forum this is GIBSONCOUNTYNOW? Did I miss the Pike Co Express when I went to Petersburg last week? Is Shoals running a train into Bedford and Bloomington since I last attended an IU game? I did see the train in Chicago it is called the L but last time I was there Chicago looked nothing like Gibson County Indiana.

G.A.R.T. Gibson Area Rapid Transit.
First stop 64/57 Juntion all Bonkers and Denny's Employees need to exit on the door to the right. Second stop Gibson County Courthouse/Princeton Downtown. Toyota employees must transfer to the bus running south on the half hour. Third Stop Duke Energy good thing Snap-On closed or we would need to reopen a few river ferries to finish out the trip to Mt Carmel.

[IronHorseman]

Do you really want to drive a shoe box on wheels?

smart fortwo pure
Address:http://www.smartusa.com/smart-fortwo-pure.aspx

[evictd]

SS like all government programs (including law enforcement) can be abused of course...does that mean they are bad programs? I dont want to see the elderly as homeless...

The "L: in "in" Chicago..it is a city train system...the SouthShore gets people from outlying communities to chicago like people from Gary, East Chicago, Hammond, etc...and if you read my post Einstein it says MAYBE a train system like the SS could work here in the FUTURE and it would be cheaper to build now if some of us want to do a little forward thinking...

2007: Cubs: First Cards: Third... you guys won the series last year and congratulations that is fine but we beat you last year and dont even compare yourselves to the Cubs when it comes to history, tradition, and the prestige of stadiums...do you really believe your dump is anything near the greatness of Wrigley Field? Wake up and get serious...

[ocwatchdog]

Trolling?

[evictd]

I'm sure sorry you stonod...but I am new to this forum and I don't know the meaning of trolling....

Can you be so kind to help me understand? Thank you

[Tumbleweed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

[Tumbleweed]

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DUBAI, United Arab Emirates - In the annals of excess, it could be a new high: a more than $300 million dollar, super-sized luxury airplane, bought and outfitted solely for the private comfort of a Saudi Arabian billionaire.

Once done, the Airbus A380, the world's biggest passenger plane, will be a "flying palace" for Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, the manufacturer announced Monday.
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So who thinks this guy should pay a gas guzzler tax? The global warming nuts have to be screeming about this one.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21758940/

[doper13]

I wonder if Global Warming melted the Glaciers that once covered Chicago and much of Indiana with several feet of ice many many years ago?

Back to the gas issue. Prices are high enough now to spur an increase in research of alternate fuels, we dont need a $2.00 per gallon tax to hurry anything. I wonder if all that tax money would be used on research or would it be used for more Democrat Pork Spending.

I dont know why you have to be so harsh on the democrats Vance, they know exactly what they are doing, hell just ask them they will tell you. The unions are going so well anymore, not to mention their idea of cutting the nations deficit was to sell our weapons to our enemies, and of course this great tax increase on the gas prices. Our nation better watch itself because we are getting to the point of destructing ourselves. Oh ya forgot this one, raise minimum wage, (I think we had a talk about that one)