Is PreAlgebraand Algebra really neccesary ??

[ljg077]

I was just wondering why they are making our kids learn Pre-Algebra and Algebra. Do you really need it in real life? Most of the parents today never took it long time ago and dont know how to do it and the kids are having to bring it home and if the kids are coming home and dont know how to do it or dont understand it. How can the parents help when the kids dont know to do it. Sheesh. I think the kids should have a choice weather they wanna learn basic, Algebra???

[kgclark31]

I don't know where you went to school, but where I went most students took pre-algebra and algebra. My wife and I both took it our 8th grade year and that was back in mid-80's. No it not a required skill for a career in fast food or retail, but I for one, do not want my children's choices limited. If you don't understand the subject maybe pick up the book and learn with your child.

[IndianaJesusfreak]

If you get really stumped, just type the equation into your search bar and click on search.

[Ford_Man]

does anyone ever need to know how to dissect a frog or grasshopper? does anyone ever need to know who sir francis drake is? does anyone need to know what latitude and longitude is?

for the most part, no.

but, if kids do not study these subjects, how are they going to know what career path they would like to take? i took pre-algebra, algebra, etc...all the way up to calculus. i took 3 years of spanish. i took 2 years of chemistry. yet, for the most part, i do not use either algebra , chemistry, or spanish.

i hated science in school, now that i am 36 years old, i can't get enough of it. i find it very interesting. i just hated the part of science where we had to cut open the frog, insect, or whatever. if it were not for those things, i probably would have explored science further. but, this is something that is different for every person. someone else might like to dissect a frog or whatever and hated the other parts of the science class.

i took every computer class i could, and i work with/on computers every day, for a living. by taking those classes, i found what i liked to do and it provides me with my income.

i have a motto.."never stop learning." i hate it when i have to call someone to work on something for me or tell me how to do something. i hate not knowing how to do something. i, personally, am going to soak in every bit of information i can, while i can. the day will come when i will not be able to learn anything or remember anything and i am not looking forward to it.

[Arn]

I use algebra all the time at home. I especially use geometry. It all comes in handy because I am too cheap to pay someone to do the carpentry.

I agree with a couple of the posts above. Why limit your kids to EXACTLY the things they will use, and ONLY those things?

First of all, who knows exactly what they will need? Secondly, I am glad that my learning covered more than what I needed to know for my first chosen job (chemist). I decided I didn't like that job and moved on to a job that requires more critical thinking - a skill that isn't learned in any one class, but rather in all classes that require one to solve problems - whether mathematical or otherwise.

Algebra = good. Just make sure your kids remember Mr. Hill's golden rule of algebra - "Do onto one side as you do onto the other" - and they'll do fine.

[Kurt M. Weber]

Why does something have to be "useful" in order to be taught?

Why are people only interested in learning what they have to know to get a job, and nothing else?

Why are so many people only interested in learning as a means to an end, rather than an end in itself? Why are so many parents instilling this attitude in their children?

I've never understood this mindset. Frankly, I find it rather base and, indeed, the antithesis of the essence of humanity.

[towering-inferno]

Math is something that some people love, and some people hate... and that will never change, Math develops critical thinking and problem solving skills. Algebra and Pre-Algebra are taught because they're not common sense subjects where you can just think on it for a few seconds and you've got it type of subjects, they're more complex subjects that require logic and reason (although at first they may not seem like it).

Depending on the life track your child will go on (by this i mean schooling, major in college, chosen industry) the algebra will not be the end, for me i really despised algebra and math in high school but when in college i fell in love with calculus. The things that math can show you about a company or engineering situation or medicine guide you in the decision making process, whether or not something is going to be a good investment, or if that bridge is going to fall apart after car number 1,200,389.8 drives over it.

Math is only going to get more complex in the school systems here in the U.S. our college level calculus is what most European and asian students are learning in the first few years of high school. My generation is probably going to say the same things about math when they're parents too

[Scannerman]

All good points about why some subjects should be taught, but, what about the subjects everyone needs? How to balance a check book, home ec. (it is amazing to me how many people do not know how to cook or sew on a button), DRIVERS ED!!!, etc. When I went to Harrison in Evansville, you got to choose what type of math you should take. I hated math but was convinced by my counselor to take algebra rather than basic math. I hated it and did lousy in it. (I like math now and learn what I need to know myself). Spelling, english and speech classes were my favorites....probably can't tell that now by my grammar, punctuation, etc. I graduated in 1983...we still had half the class with manual/half with electronic typewriters. Typing was an elective. The only computer besides the office was in the library. There was one for student use. I don't recall many people using it because there was no internet to get on. Anything I know about computers has been trial and error (emphasis on the error part). I am not saying Algebra shouldn't be taught but I think between the student, the parents and the counselor, an appropriate level of any subject should be taught to that student. That's the way it was when I went to school.:D

[dbaldwin]

Is general math even offered at high school level anymore? It seems I remember someone telling me PCHS doesn't offer it.

[twigt]

Exactly----Towering Inferno! I have at least one kid a day ask, " What will I ever need to know Algebra for?"
It teaches out-of-the-box thinking and problem solving, besides the fact that you practice the basic skills of multiplication, division, subtraction, and addition. Too many kids these days will not try and think through a problem.

I had a student the other day tell me that they thought spelling was a waste of time. When I asked why they replied, " Because I have spell check on my computer."

JB

[Tumbleweed]

I think we need a high school course titled "Making Change and how to handle a retail transaction".

When I buy a combo meal and it comes to $4.62 and I hand over my $5 bill, a dime and 2 pennies you can just see the sheer terror come over their face. They seem to be able to push the buttons with the pictures of the various happy meals but making change puts them over the edge.

[cphelps]

I have to agree with you there. I've seen it several times. Oh no! They handed me change with that bill, and it's not the right amount!!!

[LilBit]

I have a relative in Tenn that goes to a high school that has it's own bank. Gives students small loans, checking accounts, atm cards, etc. It is staffed by the students and backed by a local bank.

Another program offered is where the students decide a career path they'd like to know more about. For example, if a student was interested in marketing, they have a company set up and they work as a marketing manager. She was actually head of marketing for a sports clothing company. They had to develop a product line and present it. From top down. They would present it to a real marketing professional. All the research was done by the students...cost, manufacturing, sales analysis, etc. What a great idea!! Every so often, they would switch jobs and later that student would go on to be an accountant. Later, they would be in charge of production. They really got a feel for many types of jobs.

How awesome would that be?? Of course, they were all elective courses. What I wouldn't have given to do something like that!

[Arn]

I gave a high schooler working the concession stand at Bosse High School $3 for $2.25 worth of popcorn and coke last Saturday night and she gave me a quarter back.
I told her that I should get three quarters back, and she disagreed. I explained it to her and she still insisted that I should only get one back. I felt ridiculous arguing over 50 cents, but decided that she needed to be reminded how bad her math skills were. I explained it once more, and she still disagreed. She finally went over to the adult, whispered something to her, and the adult came over and gave me 50 cents. The girl probably still thinks she was right and that the older lady just caved in.

[woodtrojans]

I gave a high schooler working the concession stand at Bosse High School $3 for $2.25 worth of popcorn and coke last Saturday night and she gave me a quarter back.
I told her that I should get three quarters back, and she disagreed. I explained it to her and she still insisted that I should only get one back. I felt ridiculous arguing over 50 cents, but decided that she needed to be reminded how bad her math skills were. I explained it once more, and she still disagreed. She finally went over to the adult, whispered something to her, and the adult came over and gave me 50 cents. The girl probably still thinks she was right and that the older lady just caved in.

WOW! That is sad. To do some wrong math at the concessions happens all the time....but to sit there and argue about it.....that is really bad. Did you break out 4 quarters and ask how many it takes to make a dollar? I would have. You would hate to think our education system is that bad.

[Pynk Fairy Wyngs]

You would hate to think our education system is that bad.

I don't know if I would say our education system is bad. There are certain standards that have to be taught and met. I think the problem is kids just don't care anymore if they get a quality education. One thing I noticed is Toyota doesn't require a high school diploma or GED anymore. Real good example for the kids out there. One of the higher paying employers in this area doesn't care if a applicant has a basic high school diploma.

[woodtrojans]

I don't know if I would say our education system is bad. There are certain standards that have to be taught and met. I think the problem is kids just don't care anymore if they get a quality education. One thing I noticed is Toyota doesn't require a high school diploma or GED anymore. Real good example for the kids out there. One of the higher paying employers in this area doesn't care if a applicant has a basic high school diploma.


True.....I agree it is more the kids attitudes/parent upbringing than lack of quality teaching. 99% of the teachers I meet are good people who work hard to educate the students in the classroom.

[Kurt M. Weber]

All good points about why some subjects should be taught, but, what about the subjects everyone needs? How to balance a check book, home ec. (it is amazing to me how many people do not know how to cook or sew on a button), DRIVERS ED!!!, etc.
Everything you mentioned I learned either from my parents or in the Boy Scouts.

[Taceas]

Have I ever used Algebra or Calculus in the real world? Not that I can consciously recall. :p

But if you want your kids to go to college for more than just some mickey-mouse degree, they're going to need Algebra, Trigonometry, and Calculus just to get what most colleges these days require for most degrees.

I suck at math, I admit it. I got to 8th grade and wasn't one of those "chosen few" who were bussed to the high school for pre-algebra courses. So I get to my freshman year at PCHS and they throw me in Algebra I, lol. It was all Greek to me, letters for numbers? Seriously they must be daft! It also didn't help having Coach Baumgartner (iirc) as your teacher; he spent more time talking to and coddling his basketball players than teaching math.

It wasn't until I got to Algebra II with Mr. McDaniel did it finally start to make sense. I came in before school every day and stayed after school having him go through it with a few other kids who also weren't "getting it". Then it was like all of a sudden it sank in and I could understand it.

Trig honestly was a joke. I don't remember a darned thing besides counting how many times the teacher said "okay". But it was an informal pre-requisite of sorts for Calc, it started the motions for Calculus.

I get to college for my first Calculus class...I tried paying attention and tried to understand it, but it was useless. Also being in a lecture hall of over 200 didn't help; I couldn't see the board and I hardly understood the Russian professor.

It also didn't help that my first professor taught it backwards from my point of view, once I got the Fundamental Theorem, it made much more sense. But I didn't learn that till the second half of the semester, and by then my grades were kept afloat by the curve. By the time finals came and went, I missed the passing cut-off by a half a point and had to take the class over again. But I lucked out and got a TA (teaching assistant) who was teaching it in a smaller class and we went slower and I got a B the second go around, no curve required.

Why sell yourself or your children short of a quality education? No, the math courses probably will never be used in the real world unless they're going for a really spiffy major/career, but it doesn't hurt to learn it either. Stay with basic math courses and skim through high school only doing the minimum, and they'll be earning minimum as well.

[IronHorseman]

I took one year of general math. I picked up all my useful( to me ) math skills in shop classes.

[SouthSide]

We use math every day, but I really never got the literature thing. Talk about making your head spin. Et tu Brute?:D

[doper13]

Ok honestly how in the heck can this be posted when we live in a society that has such a demand on higher education. I took 3 years of Latin (a dead language) just so that I could better understand words in the english language and still today I apply that on a daily basis. Math is very needed. I know of plenty of people who cant even read a ruler and have absolutely no chance of balancing their check book. Think about that for a minute. I know that kids these days are going to be even smarter than we ever were and should be. I know of plenty of older people that wont use a computer because they are afraid to learn it. Now why would anyone say that we dont need algebra. Yes not something you use everyday but then again maybe you do. With gas prices soaring we are all trying to make every penny count and trying to get the best out of fuel mileage and using the shortest routes to get somewhere. Think about that, that is algebra, (in a raw form but nevertheless MATH). I am happy that the kids today are getting a better education and I still think it could get even better and should be better for them. They are taking spanish at a very young age. I know some of you think that "If they are in our country they should speak our language" but THEY DONT and that is a barrier that we all have to live with. I have been in many different countries and not been able to speak their language, if only I had some schooling on it maybe I could have.

I know that I kinda went on a tangent with this but I was on a role. I just think that the kids deserve all the education we can give them.

[Onyx]

I too have heard kids argue.....when will I ever use that? why do I need that? I probably made the same statements at their age.

Now that I am on the other side of the desk, I can give valid reasons for their claims. As one person mentioned earlier, math and science teaches problem solving skills.....meaning, it gives their brain the practice it needs to solve problems. I relate it to a game of chess. You need to be able to think a couple of steps ahead if you want to get further in the game.

As for history........learning from the past gives us the wisdom for future decision making.....gives us an appreciation for how far we have come....gives us value and credibility.

English......provides us with the communication skills and stretches our mind to reach/discover conclusions........can also give us entertainment.

As for current curriculum, our legislatures...in all their infinite wisdom...have decided that ALL students must have Algebra 1, Geometry and Algebra II. Beginning with the current freshman class, Core 40 is the default curriculum. To opt out, parents are suppose to have a conference with the school/counselor/administrator and sign a form indicating that they have been informed of the disadvantages of not completing Core 40.

Students not completing Core 40 will not recieve financial aid to attend a 4 year university in Indiana. They will have to attend VU or Ivy Tech and then transfer to a 4 year university.

I will tell you that there are kids in my school that are Honors students with exceptionally high GPA's (ie.. 3.7 and 3.5) that are getting turned down from IU, Purdue, and Ball State. All of a sudden, the SAT or ACT are becoming decisive factors in college admission. Kids that are not good test takers are being penalized.

I am not saying that I agree with any of this.......just FYI

[Quiet Patriot]

Does anybody know what percentage of kids from Gibson County that enter High School go to college?

[Tumbleweed]

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/MILESSD/Local%20Settings/Temporary%20Internet%20Files/Content.IE5/O5IRCHM3/Dropout%2520Presentation---2.24.06%5B1%5D.ppt#256,1,Indiana High School Dropout Information

Sorry, you will need to copy the link to your brouser address bar.

I haven't found the local data but you can see a great deal of state wide information in the attacthed ppt. You have to have a Power Point viewer to see it but it is well worth the effort. Here are a few details...

Statewide of every 100 9th graders
1. 72 students graduate
2. 44 enter college (doesn't say how many graduate)
3. 33 are still enrolled as sophmores
4. 22 graduate within 6 years

1 out of 7 high school diplomas is a GED

[socialworker]

I think the changes in requiring core 40 are good. My daughter had excellent math teachers in school. One thing that I will do differently for my younger child is to have tutoring for SAT and ACT prep. My daughter obtained a full tuition scholarship and the requirements were based on ACT or SAT test scores. I also like the EL math classes that start in middle school.

[Qode]

file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/MILESSD/Local%20Settings/Temporary%20Internet%20Files/Content.IE5/O5IRCHM3/Dropout%2520Presentation---2.24.06%5B1%5D.ppt#256,1,Indiana High School Dropout Information


Try this address instead:
http://www.che.state.in.us/dropout/Dropout%20Presentation---2.24.06.ppt

I remember that 100% of the GSHS class of 1995 claimed they were going on to college. That was based on a questionaire of the class asking if they had planned on going. Whether they did or not I have no idea as I'm sure many people's plans changed in three months.

[cjwo57]

This link probably provides more information than anyone would really want:
http://www.city-data.com/zips/47670.html